Human rights activist, Mrs. Aisha Wakil, popularly called Mama Boko Haram, in this interview with GBENRO ADEOYE and KAYODE IDOWU says she is proud to call members of Boko Haram her sons After the abduction of Chibok schoolgirls in 2014, people never expected that there would be another mass abduction like that. How did you feel when you heard the news that some schoolgirls had been kidnapped from Dapchi in Yobe State or did you see it coming? How can anyone see it coming? (Are you) asking me how I felt when I heard the news? I don’t know how to explain it – it raised my blood pressure. I was in this office when I heard the news. I really can’t remember when the kidnapping took place but I heard about it on a Thursday. I wasn’t comfortable, honestly. They are like my grandchildren, not my kids because they are too young to be my kids, so they are like my grandchildren. It is so bad. The kidnapping occurred despite the number of soldiers in that region, what did we do wrong? Nobody knows what we did wrong; only Allah knows what has gone wrong. The number of soldiers in Borno fighting this thing (is high), some came from the South-South like Calabar; some are Ibibio, Yoruba and Igbo. Many of them are trooping in here from all over, including from neighbouring countries to fight this (insurgency). They are all trying their best but only Allah knows what is wrong. I don’t know. In your recent interview, you referred to one Habib as your son. Who is Habib? Habib (also known as Abu Musab al-Barnawi, leader of ISIS-backed Boko Haram faction) is the son of Mohammed Yusuf (a Muslim sect leader and founder of Boko Haram killed in 2009); so that was why I called him my son. So he is not your biological son? (Laughs). How close are you to this Habib? I was close to the father. When the crisis started, I saw him and his father around a place we call West End. In fact, that was why I took my car and went there to try to pick them. I wanted to see whether I could bundle them into my car but by the time I got there, the children were jubilating. You know, they had not seen that kind of thing before. They were jubilating as if it was Sallah. I was told to go to Galadima Junction, so I headed towards there and the bombing and bullets were too much. That was the last time I saw them and they told me that he (Yusuf) was there with a child of between ages 10 and 12 years and that he was his son. A lot of them were with AK47 rifles. So what is your assessment of Habib? Habib, from what I heard, is so angry about the way his father was killed and he is also somebody that one can talk to because he has a soft heart like his father. If the father were alive today, this thing would not have happened. Mohammed Yusuf didn’t have a heart to kill or make anybody angry. Mohammed Yusuf’s anger was always about women; when they were not properly dressed, he would tell them. He would not even get angry; he would tell you that you didn’t dress properly and he would recite Quran to you. Mohammed Yusuf could not even hurt anybody, so the son is his blood and I know that being the blood of Mohammed Yusuf, he is going to behave like his father. If you look at them, he somehow resembles his father, so he will be mild and calm if someone can really and sincerely talk to him. Do you believe that you can talk to him? Of course, I can. And you think that he will act positively. Habib will listen; (Mamman) Nur will listen. Are they not human beings? Any human being that eats, sleeps, talks and inasmuch they are not dead, they must listen to reason. Has the government got in touch with you to negotiate on its behalf? The government doesn’t need to get in touch with me because I’ve never got in touch with the government in all my dealings with them (Boko Haram). I follow what John F. Kennedy said- ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. This is my own country; I don’t need to wait for anybody. People here know who I am; they know the kind of person I am. I go out of my way to find peace whenever there is trouble. If you check my Facebook account, you will see that I can joke a lot. Some people will ask me – are you really the Aisha? You crack a lot of jokes. My motto is to make people happy. In that case, have you started the process of getting in touch with Habib to try to secure the release the kidnapped Dapchi schoolgirls? I will not answer that question. Some people suspect that security agencies would be monitoring every call and movement you make. Are you aware that this could be happening or don’t you care? I don’t care. I have nothing hidden. Aisha is not hidden, so let them monitor (me) if they like. If they don’t have my (telephone) number, I will give them my number. It is only when you hidden agenda or you have a bad character that you will start hiding. I have nothing to hide, so I move freely. Let them monitor whatever. If I go wrong, I need correction. There was a report that some of the Dapchi schoolgirls had been taken to Niger Republic. Do you know whether the girls are still in Nigeria or Habib has moved them out of Nigeria? I don’t know where they are. If I knew, I would go there. Do you know the relationship between Habib and Abubakar Shekau (a factional leader of Boko Haram)? From what I read, there was a time that they came out and said something. Mamman Nur said something; Habib said something, so I wouldn’t know what the relationship between them right now is. All I know is that they are in different groups. Mamman Nur is different from Habib, right? From what I read, Mamman Nur and Habib are together in the same group. Different from Shekau’s group, right? I think so, I don’t know. I’m not there with them. What would have made them to separate from Shekau? I wouldn’t know. Has Shekau been killed or not? The government has made claims several times that he has been killed. Please ask Gen. (Tukur) Buratai. Would you know what they want in return for the Dapchi schoolgirls since we have not heard that they have made any demand? I don’t know. You have expressed hope that they would be released. Insha Allah (By the special grace of God). If they won’t need anything in return, why kidnap them? I wouldn’t know either. I wouldn’t know; that is what beats my imagination; that is why my head is heating up. I don’t know. One of the fathers (of the kidnapped girls) said his daughter is 13 years old. A child that is 13 years old is my grandchild. You said Habib loves peace, but would someone who loves peace kidnap little children? (Laughs). You know, so far there has been no serious move going on for them to come out so they have to make some noise. It is just like when a man needs his wife and the wife is not forthcoming, he starts rejecting food. So I won’t answer all these questions completely, but I know that deep down in Habib, Nur and their group, they need peace. So what you are saying is that perhaps this is not about hurting the girls but about making people to be aware that they are still around. I don’t know but it could be because they are still around. If they were not around, why would they do this? They are around, if they were not around, how would they be bombing, killing people in Rann? The claim is that it is not this group, it is that group, so they are very much around and they will do what they do. It’s very sad. Are we sure the girls are not being assaulted as we speak because some of the released Chibok girls came back with pregnancies? Koi! Koi! Koi! (Sighs). I wouldn’t like to think along that line, I’m a mother, it will kill me. This question will kill me, please let me not think about that, alright. Forgive me. Chibok schoolgirls’ kidnap and this one happened close to election periods. Do you think these kidnappings are political? Um, you just hit the nail (on the head). You know, in Nigeria, they know how to destabilise human beings; they are good and they are bad. Only Allah in heaven knows the innermost part of human beings. Politics is around the corner. There was a time I told you that the boy said they would not allow us. Who are those ‘they’? Those ‘they’, you know, they are human beings. I don’t know. People wonder how you got to know the members of Boko Haram. Tell us. If you read my story from the beginning since this crisis started, I narrated the whole story. One thing leads to another once you have a good behaviour and you are not hidden. Now, you have come to me, I’m going to tell somebody that you came to me and you are going to tell somebody that you met Aisha, so this is how the story goes. Once you are good with people, your name sells on its own, so that was how it started right from the very day I came to Borno as a married woman. Haven’t you thought about detaching yourself from Boko Haram with the criminality that they are associated with? Wow! Then you leave them. You detach yourself from them and then leave them to continue with what they are doing. Oh! No! No! No! I will never do that. They are destroying properties and human lives. They are doing all that and we should now keep quiet and allow them to go on? My voice may not reach all but this my voice has got to the leader and they listen. If everybody now keeps quiet, what will be the result? It will be complete chaos. Oh, no, I even encourage more people to come out and talk – keep talking. These children, they have listening ears, so they listen. They hear everything and they have hearts. Their hearts bleed because of what they are doing. They want to stop, honestly, they want to stop. How are they going to stop? If you now keep quiet, you encourage them and nobody cares. Wow! I am not going to keep quiet; I will keep on screaming until there is peace. You seem to know what is going on in the hearts of those people. How do you think they feel with the cries of the parents for their missing children? Um, I wouldn’t know how they feel because I’m not there with them. That is why I said I wish I knew where they were. I would trek if I could not get a car to take me there. I would ride a horse or donkey there. Do you agree with those who say the security agencies are not doing enough to end this war? Let them come and do their own part and end it. Why are they always blaming people? I don’t like to keep blaming people. Security operatives are not the cause of this problem; nobody caused this problem. They said they were angry about whatever they called it- crash helmet policy (that led to the crisis in Borno and Mohammed Yusuf’s killing). One thing led to the other and we are where we are today and somebody is just somewhere blaming others. How many soldiers have died? How many human beings have died? Even the Boko Haram, how many have they killed? Uncountable! Somebody is saying that they are not doing enough; they can just come out now and help to do it. If you know them, come out now, come and do it, let us not sit and blame security agencies. Honestly, nobody should blame the security agencies. Between 2009 and 2015, you know what was happening here. I would not have even come here and talk. Please, nobody should blame them. Instead of blaming anybody, I encourage everybody to pray to God. When the Israelites came out of the land of Egypt, and were to cross the sea, what did they do? Moses, who was a leader, prayed to God and what did the sea do? The sea parted into two. All the Israelites were able to cross. Can’t they pray? That power of God, has it disappeared? Haba! They should pray. Government claimed it has technically defeated Boko Haram. How decimated is this group, truly, or do you think it was just a political statement? I wouldn’t know, you ask them. Who? You ask the people that said whatever they said. I don’t follow them to go and fight Boko Haram, so they know whether they have been defeated or not. I don’t know. Do you think there would be a time when this war would be totally defeated, going by what you see? You people say defeat, defeat, defeat as if two people are fighting. Two countries are not fighting. I don’t see it as a war, I just see it as children that became weird, children that were angry and just went gaga. That is the way I see it. Defeat, defeat, defeat, I don’t believe in defeating anybody. What I always tell them is that everybody is a winner, everybody is a loser. Just come together, drop your guns, (say) government, this is what we want and it will settle you. If it were war, would you say we should settle Chad or Chad should settle Nigeria? This is what we call war. There is nothing like defeat. Let them go and sort things out. You know Nigeria now, the moment they come out and say we are sorry, the same Nigerians will say forgive them, forgive them, forgive them. They have confessed, so these are the encouragements I want people to give them and this is the encouragement I always give them and I stand by it and I believe in it. People might begin to see you as one of them. Are you worried about how this tends to influence people’s perception of you? No! No! No! I am not worried because I know I’m not one of them. I am just a peaceful woman, an activist trying to make peace. You know Nigeria, when you want to do something good, there is always the negative and the positive like one of my brothers said that. He said he would arrest me. I said if arresting me will make him happy, then he should come and arrest me, let him become happy but provided he is going to buy beverages and bring to me in detention and come and see me. I’m not a criminal, I’m not part and parcel of them, if I were part and parcel of them, they would tell you, they would do that. They don’t hide it. If I were part and parcel of them, the community where I am now would tell you. The only thing I stand for is – children, come back, drop your guns, and somebody must stand up to say all these things to them. What about the remaining Chibok girls; things seem to have gone quiet about them. Do you have any information about them? I wouldn’t know. Who told you that there is quietness about them? As they (government) are asking for those ones (Chibok schoolgirls), they are also asking for these ones (Dapchi schoolgirls). Nobody is quiet about anything, government is not quiet, security (agencies) are not quiet, human beings are not quiet, everybody is doing something. Are they still alive or the last has been heard of them? You know, before Chibok girls were released, I told Nigerians that they were alive. Someone said they had all been killed. I had to come and clear the air and I said that they were alive and that they would release them. And they did. Some are alive, some might have died or been shot or whatever but they are alive, they are not dead. So there is hope that the other Chibok girls are going to be released. Insha Allah. What suggestion will you give to the Federal Government as it tries to solve this problem? I will tell the Federal Government, please, if you are going to fly, you are going to put your feet on the ground. Birds, planes, aircraft do all that. They should please put their feet on the ground, come down. There are people these boys respect, there are people they hear their voices, they should get in touch with those people. I might not be the only one, I might not even be part of it. I don’t care; my own is just to scream the way I am screaming. And if I get them, I tell them, my son, you are not hearing what is happening. They know the name they call me. So they should calm down. Or is it that they don’t want to look for them or they believe that by staying somewhere in air-conditioned rooms, the boys will just start coming? Someone has to come down, talk to them, they will do their talking to them too in the bush, you will see. You know, there are questions they will ask. You will see them start coming (out). What do you think is the implication of the withdrawal of UN officials from the North-East? That is a disaster, do you blame them? If somebody slaps you in this office, are you going to come again? You won’t come, but UN is UN. They are for humans; they have experienced all those things before, not only in Nigeria. The Igbo will say will you say that because they killed soldiers in war, they will not go to war again? You will still see them going the more. I know they are shocked. They are sad but if it is the UN I have read so much about, they (UN officials) will come back. So what is your appeal to the UN? Please, let your people come back. I am begging them, let them just come back. They know the situation on the ground, this is not the first time they would experience this in the places they have gone to. It is the Almighty God who gave them this organisation to help the whole world. What has happened has happened. One must die one day; maybe this is how the Almighty Allah has designed their departure from earth. It is so painful. So I’m begging them. Will they leave us to languish the way we are languishing? I am begging them to come back. What message do you have for the insurgents concerning the killing of UN officials? They have done it, what else can I tell them? I am begging them. People say I am a mad woman and that I called them my kids, I can never stop calling them my kids. In African context, a child doesn’t belong to a single person. In Yorubaland, it is like that. In Igboland, that is the tradition, so I cannot stop calling them my kids. Somebody has to play that role to make peace, to let them know that people are concerned about them. Inasmuch as I hate what they do, I always tell them, I don’t like what they are doing, but their souls were created by Allah. I love their souls. And it is that soul that you and I will use in knowing each other in the hereafter. That soul is what I am working on, not their body, not what they are doing. My beloved sons, people say I’m mad for calling you my sons, I’m proud of that. Please, stop killing. It is enough. It is going to 10 years now. It is okay. Whatever it is that is bothering you people, I take it upon myself that the whole world is going to listen to you and the whole world is not going to do anything to you. They are watching us. I have never seen where someone who is fighting will come out to say I’m tired of fighting and he will be slaughtered. No way! The world will not do that to them. Let them just come out. And those ones that surrendered or were captured, didn’t they see the way the military killed them? Treat them with respect, clean them up, give them water and food. Dress them and nobody will even know who they are, take them to a different place and treat them like human beings. That is one thing I always tell them. Stop being scared, this is your hometown, Nigeria is your country, you are free to stay anywhere. And from my heart, honestly, I love them. I love them, not what they do, but their souls. You run an NGO in Maiduguri, what is the implication of the crisis on your operations? As the name of the NGO suggests – Complete Care and Aid Foundation – the work is done all over. It is not just here. Though, this is my base, anywhere I hear there is a problem, I go there. Now, I am heading somewhere outside Maiduguri to go and render some help but I’m not going to tell you where. My NGO is just to help out with what is already on the ground. What other NGOs are doing is not enough. There are internally displaced persons in secluded areas in the bush, who are on their own. They are just there with no hope. If you go to these host communities in Maiduguri, all the houses, no matter how rich the people are, they have IDPs that you don’t even know where they come from. So I was able to discover all those ones and they are all dying of hunger. So I’m helping out to see how we can end the suffering. Also, a lot of people are into drugs. Drug abuse is my greatest fear. I’m so scared of it; people are so idle, and an idle man, you know how he can be. In terms of implication of the crisis on my work, it is like that in every other NGO. I am not anticipating anything. Just like I told you, a soldier cannot say because another soldier died, he would not go to war. We are begging God – let there be no encounter with them and with prayers, everything will go fine.]]>

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